"To Have Great Poets, There Must Be Great Audiences" - Walt Whitman
"Spoken Word" a term marketed and skewed by the Guardian to mean "Urban wordsmith", i.e. someone (usually young and influenced by Hip-Hop) who performs poetry or dramatic monologues or raps without a beat. "Spoken Word" audiences (i.e. Guardian readers) are still new to the art so I thought I'd share these videos of poets who truly push the performance of poetry.
US poet/Author/ founder of Write Bloody Publishing is heading to London on the 23rd September to run a poetry workshop. It will take place at 5.30pm at the Free Word Centre. There are twenty places and its £20 to participate. To sign up pleaseemail me and I'll put you on the register.
If you can't make it and would like the chance to catch Derrick Brown perform a set of his own poetry at The Keats House Poets Forum as part of his European tour then head down to Keats House Museum on Sunday 25th September at 2pm. There is even an open mic (arrive early for sign up) Also this event is FREE! so there's no excuses to miss one of the worlds most renowned performance poets while he's in town.
Also, in case you were wondering the next Chill Pill is at Soho Theatre on the 3rd October
7.30pm.
Other Upcoming Shows
September 24th : A Poetry Roast at Keats House w/ Benjamin Zephaniah
October 6th : Worcester Literature Festival
October 11th : Royal Holloway Students Union w/ Simon Mole, Deanna Rodger, Tshaka Campbell, Anthony Anaxagorou, The Ruby Kid
October 14th : Rail Road Cafe' (Hackney) w/ Captain Of The Rant & Rachel Rose Reid
October 15th : Little Lamp (Brighton) w/ Richard Tyrone Jones
October 20th : Chill Pill @ The Albany w/ Dizraeli, Simon Mole, Deanna Rodger, Poetikat, Mark Mr.T Thompson
October 23rd : Keats House Poets Present... (Keats House) w/ Bohdan Piasecki
October 27th: The Horse and Groom (Shoreditch) w/ The Ruby Kid plus Guests
October 29th : Keats House w/ Benjamin Zephaniah, Patience Agbabi and Jordan Westcarr
Performers – it’s true. We are completely and utterly insane. There is no escape from this. Think about it… the intensity of pre-show nerves is every “DON’T FUCKING DO IT!” symptom your body can give. You shake, you shit, you throw up, you piss, you sweat… shit man, we become one big disease crumble.. yet, we have some inner lunacy battling though these very human instincts. The dream of being acknowledged, validated, idolised, self-employed etc wins… almost every time. This is not a criticism but we performers are complete masochists and our audiences are complete narcissists, seeking out pain and pleasure in others and connecting only to what they see (or want to see) in themselves.
I’ve performed a lot of shows this year and you know, some of them went very well… The tour I did in Chicago has changed quite a few things about me as a writer/performer. Most of the top Chicago poets I met are out of performing arts schools, creative writing academies and have every bit of paper that suggests they are a lot smarter than me.
I haven’t been to drama school, university or even college. I left school at 16 with four GCSE’s. Pretty much everything I’ve learned about performance and writing has been from my own research. I owe a lot to Wale Ojo who is a renowned Nigerian actor and director who came up to me after a show and said “you are a good writer but not a very good performer… you need work” and then taught me in just one workshop how better to approach the stage. Breathe, articulate, understand who you are talking to and most importantly… enjoy yourself… see it, believe it and your audience will too.
I just read Bill Hick’s biography and found it deeply inspiring.
Bill Hick’s stage persona was an anti-establishment, social-reformist, critical thinker, spoken word artist and comic. He got a big break by being asked to do a set on David Letterman’s talk show (one of the most popular in America). Bill gears up and performs his strongest set to date, talking in the book about all the nerves that rattle your body in pre-show mode, he smacks his set, the studio audience loved him and Letterman himself is in fits of laughter. It’s a proud moment for him. He goes home and sits in a hot bath to unwind and congratulate himself only to receive a phone call to say he’s been cut from the show due to censorship issues. This hurt him so much he called his mum with tears in his eyes shouting “MUM THEY CUT ME! WHY DON’T THEY SEE… THEY’RE JUST JOKES!?” this shows one of the most popular out-spoken/ anti-establishment performers of the 90’s being rejected by (drum roll) brrrrrmmmmm THE ESTABLISHMENT! ... and it cut deeply into him.
Man, Bill Hicks was crazy.
I’ve asked myself a few times why I do what I do? … I want to be heard. I want to promote a form of entertainment that engages people emotionally and intellectually through this weird and wonderful thing called language. It's amazing to me that we live in an age of gloss machines constantly flashing their lights, yet, we can give Spoken Word shows where audiences are engaged and transfixed by one person and their stories/rhythms/persona.
I want to provide an alternative to the numb, gutless brain of mainstream media… it's amazing how many people think there is no other way. Overall I think I do this because I am completely and utterly insane.
Ray.
P.S
I also owe a lot to other insane people like Musa Okwonga, Joshua Idehen, Mista Gee and Niall O'Sullivan.
Niall booked me for his book launch after my second ever gig (or display of madness) and he encouragement my insanity. I told Niall recently "you are one of the only people who said I could have a career in poetry" and he said "poetry!? I thought you wanted to be a tobacconist"
P.P.S Here's a list of up coming gigs (hyperlinks included)
Since being active in this Spoken Word thing some of us do, David J has instigated some of the maddest conversations out of all the whacko poets I know.
I remember once me and David were talking about madness and genius over a glass of orange juice after a gig.
He said "the genius steps towards the cliff of madness and peers over the edge, able to pull himself away, but the one's that jump have no way back".
He incorperates this into his own practice saying when he's being creative he's trying to get his toes as close to that edge as possible.
David J is one of those poets who never really gets the credit he deserves and is often over-shadowed by the hype of another "in-the-moment" poet" and there are reasons for this I won't go into but I'd just like to ackowledge him as someone who has been an inspiration to me and many other Spoken Word poets.
I've heard David J desribed as the "poets, poet" or the "wise man in the shadow of a moutain".
Polarbear says David J is "one of the only poets worthy of the title 'performance poet'".
He's right and this post is to acknowledge a man who has been doing this for longer than a lot of us have been alive.
A story I love hearing is the night David J was working as a cloak room attendent. While he was on his break he bumped into the Rapper Canibus and kicked up a battle.
David J won the battle and Canibus asked who he was and David just said "I'm a cloakroom attendant" then went back to work, hanging up peoples coats. ha!
The day the poetry of Vladimir Mayakovsky was introduced to me was probably the day I knew I wanted to be a poet as well as a Spoken Word artist. I’d been writing for years already but hadn’t yet found a so called “academic” poet to connect with.
I was just listening to lots of Bob Dylan, Gil Scott Heron, Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen, Saul Williams, Sage Francis, Peter Tosh, Jehst, Atmosphere, Big L, Jay-Z, Pharoahe Monch etc. It was summer 2008 when Mayakovsky’s poem ‘A Cloud In Trousers’ was put under my eyes.
“Hey! Ladies and Gents! Amateur collectors Of blasphemies, Crimes, Carnage- Have you seen What’s most frightening of all- My face when I am Absolute calm”
The poem instantly spread wild fire across my brain before cutting open my soul with knuckle dusters. It wouldn’t be far off to say Vladimir Mayakovsky was the Eminem of his day. He was a true craftsman of energetic rhythmic flow, highly controversial and had a great understanding of the craft of poetry and performance.
He was essentially a Spoken Word Artist.
“For you I Will tear out my soul, Crush it underfoot To make it bigger! – And give it to you all bloody, for a banner.”
Reading the poem ‘A Cloud In Trousers’ you can really see how it must have inspired 'Howl' by Alan Ginsberg who was also a big Mayakovsky fan.
Mayakovsky wrote about his process as a writer and performer of poetry in 1926, the book is called How Are Verses Made?
It has since become one of my bibles as a Spoken Word artist and I say serves almost as a manifesto to poets who perform their poetry.
“The question of the tone of a poetic work is connected with matters of technique. You mustn’t design the thing to function in some airless void, or as is often the case with poetry, in an all too airy void. You must keep your audience constantly before your eyes, the audience with whom this poem is aimed. This is important in our day when the most significant means of communicating with the masses is the auditorium, the public platform, the voice, the spoken word.
You must adopt a tone that fits your audience – persuasive or pleading, commanding or questioning. The larger part of my work is based on a controversial tone. But despite all my planning this tone isn’t a fixed thing, established once for all, but a stance I often change in the course of reading, according to the kind of audience I have. Thus for example the printed text speaks in rather dispassionate tones, aiming at a qualified reader.
When you’re writing a poem that’s destined for publication you must calculate how the printed text will be received as a printed text”
“A poet must develop just this feeling for rhythm in himself, and not go learning up other peoples measurements: iambus, trochee or even this much vaunted free verse: rhythm accommodating itself to some concrete situation, and of use only for that concrete situation. Like for example, magnetic energy discharged onto a horseshoe, which will attract iron filings, but which you can’t use for anything else. I know nothing of metre...”
Most Spoken Word artists I come across don’t read poetry and you can usually tell from the quality of their work, I don’t mean to sound smug, its true. I do appreciate that page poetry and performance poetry are two different genres of poetry but they're often viewed as rivals rather than compliments of each other, especially in the UK.
The key reason Mayakovsky means so much to me is because he broke down my own prejudices of what poetry is on the page. He roared in his own voice, his work is passionate, sincere, intense, unrestrained and wildly imaginative without being as he puts it "airless voids" or pretentious.
He doesn’t write in stiff, outdated classic forms. I mean, how would anyone writing a poem and using eighteenth century language going to sound authentic or relatable to the common people?
Poetry is for the common people as explained rather famously by the American bard poet 'Amiri Baraka'.
"I used to tell my students, you think your stuff (poetry) is good? see those guys digging a hole in the street there, when they get a minute off to eat a sandwich go read em' a poem, see if you get hit in the head, if you don't get hit in the head, you got a future"
Mayakovsky's words scream with life and intense urgency from the page. My discovery of Mayakovsky then led me onto reading other poets in other genres and eras (Pablo Neruda, Andre Breton, Mark Strand, Sharon Olds, Dylan Thomas, Adrienne Rich, Raymond Carver, Maya Angelou, Li Po, Bukowski, Roger Robinson, Claude McKay, Ben Okri etc) the list goes on and I’m still as open as I was before to inspiration from other Spoken Word artists, musicians and song writers.
In 2011 I’m determined to help get the London Spoken Word scene whipped into better shape.
Less self-indulgent, un-interesting, unexplored writings and performances, less spoken word nights filled only with the friends of performers and failed bitter poets... less having to sit through a bunch of painful nonsense before getting to anything decent!
We need to connect the movement and establish a hierarchy of ability in performers to give progressing poets more to aspire to.
The US poets may aspire to be in Def Poetry Jam or a slot as a featured poet in the top Spoken Word nights or featured in a popular podcast or tour... these are the ingredients for progress.
If I didn’t know what Spoken Word was and I walked into some these nights I’d never have known its potential or value... some of the bollocks that’s displayed is putting off people that would actually make brilliant spoken word artists themselves and forcing the already well practiced spoken word artist to disassociate themselves with the overall movement... This is discrediting the art form.
Thank goodness the first nights I went to were filled with inspiring magic... but those nights were either in other countries, closed down or they're still going but they lost the spark)
Everyone seems too precious about their own space in a pond... forget the pond.. and even the garden... we live in a city.
I know it sounds a bit ranty and arrogant but the fact I see a lot of good spoken word artists who are good but would absolutely flourish with a strengthened, quality and well connected scene (myself included) is slightly disheartening. I’ve sat down with some mega talented poets and people to discuss how to keep this movement as progressive as possible and things are taking starter kicks.
“I'm excited at the prospect of developing a platform that is driven by *quality* (which accommodates a variety of tastes and styles) rather than *access*, which is already well provided for in the performance poetry scene.
Such a platform would not undermine or compete with the current model, rather it would complement it by establishing a standard to which poets can aspire, and acting as motor to raise our expectations of what top-end performance poetry can look like.” –Sian Robins-Grace
If Pete The Temp ruled the world it would be squeezed between his chest and arms in a giant metaphysical man hug.
If Pete The Temp ruled the world the C Word would be "Classism".
If Pete The Temp ruled the world he’d sell a lot of CDs.
Every now and then you pick up some roadie stories as a travelling artist and one of my favorites involves the day I met Pete. We were on the same bill at a Festival in Cambridge and Pete had a late set. As festival audiences go the later you’re set the higher chances of a drunken and disorderly audience.
Pete launched into a poem and some disgruntled, pink-eyed drunk woman in the audience barged onto the stage and wrestled Pete. Unable to get Pete on the floor she decided to jump on his back while Pete (without stopping his performance) punched his poem out his panting lungs. He completed his set carrying the woman off stage on piggyback…
Pete The Temp instantly became my hero.
Q. So Pete, you’re a temp?
I graduated with an arts degree and consequently spent my early twenties as a temp. Much of my early work was workplace satire. The Temp part of my name is about solidarity with the underdog. It is for everyone who believes that there is more to life than mindless work that devalues people as human beings, pays them fuck all and channels all their productive time into menial tasks that make a small minority of people rich. You know those vans, that drive up to dusty roadside junctions near the Mexican boarder to pick up men and children desperate for half a days work? That's the same thing as a temp agency. I have spoken to countless people who find an escape from this in writing and performing. By laughing at it and poking fun at it we can make something positive out of something negative.
I used to do human rights work in Colombia where standing up for yourself as a worker can lead to assassination at the hands of a death squad. Workers there are at the sharp end of the same system – one that values profit over people and seeks to trivialise and casualise employees. The temp thing is also an expression of solidarity with them. But no, I’m not a temp, I haven't been for years. I'm now a corporate lawyer.
Q. I thoroughly enjoy the social commentary in your poems but does poetry and politics have a good relationship?
My big mouth is my gift. It is my duty to channel my creative energies into making a song and dance about what I believe to be important. Historically poets have always been a bit subversive. Poetry engages you intellectually and creates arenas of public discussion and critical thinking. It could be about sexual politics, relationship politics or politics politics. People who prefer to spend their evenings in these environments rather than watching TV are less likely to accept what 'The Man' tells them.
I am currently working on a spoken word stage show: 'Pete the Temp verses Climate Change! We are in the process of finding people and venues interested in hosting it. The aim of the show is to get people talking about climate change and laughing at the same time. While the mouths are open you can throw in some food for thought. Q. You teach performance poetry. How do you teach someone to become a good Spoken Word poet?
Games are an important part of the creative process and are missing from the school curriculum. De-constructing the text of John Hegley and Benjamin Zephaniah from books is not enough to spark young imaginations to engage with 'spoken word'. A large proportion of the workshops we carry out at Hammer & Tongue are warm up games, improvisation games, rap battles and mini – competitions. Games are fun. They engage your body and get blood pumping to the brain which releases endorphins and sparks creativity. I believe this is how we can bring the words to life, get people performing and resurrect the oral tradition.
Q. You sing and play guitar and you have a lot of call and response material in your performance catalogue. Do you feel poetry on its own is never enough to engage your audiences? You can do anything on a spoken word stage – satire, music, character acting, audience participation. I’ve even got away with doing sketch comedy once. The call and response stuff creates a nice dialogue between audience and performer. For every ego on stage there are another twenty in the audience. When it comes to the guitar, stand up poetry has masses of musicality in it already – even without an instrument. Imagery and metaphor is important but that is not to say that it cannot be brought to life! I don’t think that there is any less 'content' or 'writing' in heavily performative poetry – it is just that the pieces are designed to have different effects on the listener.
Q. You were born and bred in Oxford right? When I think of Oxford I think of the place that isn’t Eton or Cambridge University but it might as well be. How the hell did you become the public menace you are?
I exist in the badlands of Oxford. I eat rats in tunnels below the colleges and periodically jump out to eat rich people with my fingernails and teeth.
Q. You’ve performed all over the country how do your audiences vary and what does this teach you as an artist?
Being a performer has given me the great privilege of backpacking round my own country and experiencing new places and people. Poetry is about community as much as it is about words and spoken word audiences are unlike any other – open minded, attentive, aware and friendly. Each venue, night and point in time has its own demographic and its own vibe. The challenge for me is to tap into this and to orchestrate the right set for that particular audience.
Q. Are the rumors true? Do poets die poor?
Someone once said “there is no money in poetry, but then again, there is no poetry in money.” Bollocks! There are too many fantastic performers out there who are not getting paid for the professional work they do. This is not the case in other branches of spoken word like stand up. It doesn't have to be this way. In France and Germany poets regularly perform to audiences of 400 plus. Not all nights have a budget to pay performers and that's fine. Poets in the UK do after all operate in a small artistic economy but this is changing all the time. People are waking up to the fact that poetry can move you, inspire you and even get you singing along. How many poetry gigs have you been to where people are like “Wow! I never knew poetry could be like that!”?. I don't know any poets who want to be rich but they do want to be able pay their rent. Valuing our work as poets is part of the task of changing public perceptions of poetry. If you are a poet and someone asks you to do “a reading during the interval” - decline the offer!
Q. Pete, I love your work and you’re a top bloke... I’d give you a permanent contract any day!
I'd be your office bitch any day my friend. Keep up the good work.
I met Indigo Williams at a show I did with her at Middlesex University last February. She writes and performs with such intense conviction she could be considered a weapon.
Slender at the waist, cheek bones high and a flower beaming from the silk branches of her afro… she’s cute… but the name ‘Indigo Williams’ can only belong to someone who could shake down a temple.
See, I was expecting some intimate campfire poems, but she left me dwelling in the world of an imagination that sparks fires!
Q. Indigo, I’d never have guessed it but you’re fairly new to all this ‘Spoken Word stuff’ aren’t you?
Yes I am indeed, everybody assumes I’ve been doing this for years when in actual fact I only decided I wanted to be a spoken word artist in august of 09 and by November 09 I was performing- so that’s about 9 months. (Performing that is)
Q. How did South London make a poet out of you?
It didn’t. I’ve always been talented at writing I just never took it seriously. I wanted to be a writer as a child but then I had a teacher who told the 8 year old me that I wasn’t smart enough and so I stopped for a while. In any case I don’t think you can really make a poet you either are or you’re not but you can inspire a poet and many things about growing up in south London have inspired me and that is evident in my work.
Q. I like your facebook updates, there was one that stuck with me – “Its not hard to woo a crowd. The true test is whether you can touch and leave them changed” what is the change you hope to give to your audience?
Good question! I am a strong believer that if you want to help make the world a better place then you are to be the example of the change you hope for. The only problem with that is there are millions of things that will probably work against you but I believe if you can change the way a man thinks you can change a man. So I would say the change I hope to give to any audience is the power of thought; the power to take them out of their world and into somebody else’s so that together we learn empathy, we learn patience for one another and we learn to think outside of our own boxes. Hence my slogan ‘Painting worlds with words’ (yes I have a slogan) lol
Q. I noticed you feel all the creative industries are saturated with fakes and cop-outs. Is the fact that Spoken Word is away from the mainstream and more of an underground movement part of its appeal to you?
This is such a funny question lool. I HATE COP OUTS! Fake people are inevitable but a cop out is just laziness. For example the old saying “sex sells” urm…yeah, but so do other things BE CREATIVE!
Anyhoo...
What appealed to me wasn’t the lack of fake people because anybody who knows enough people in the scene will know that is far from the truth as I am discovering lol (ooooo no she didn’t -yes is I did.)
I joined the scene because nobody knew who I was, nobody gave a shit about who I was and that was exactly what I needed at that time especially. I’ve come from the music world and I’ve grown up around extreeeeemly talented people, which meant a VERY high standard was always expected of me from a very young age. After a while music wasn’t fun anymore and then I found spoken word and I could be free with it, I could do a bad show and it really wouldn’t matter. I didn’t have that freedom when I was a singer but it turns out I’m better at spoken word anyways. (In my opinion)
Q. How far can a Spoken Word artist go to be successful before "selling out"?
You could sell out at any point it depends on why you do what you do. Ultimately the only person you are going to answer to is yourself, every choice is a declaration of who you choose to be so the moment your actions contradict your conscious choice then you have gone back on yourself. Its just a matter of whether that bothers you or not and it also depends on your interpretation of success. Q. You’ve been performing a lot of your poetry at festivals recently. What is this teaching you as an artist?
It’s taught me that I would only ever go to a festival if I were an artist because you get privileges any other way is straight up LONG! Those toilets are just nasty!
Q. What’s next for Indigo Williams?
Graduating uni, Freelance journalism, starting a company called ‘The Platform’ (look out for it.) Acting, films, Art + poetry exhibition, writing a book, dusting off my guitar and combining my poetry and music and hopefully leaving a trail of change wherever I go especially with young people. I plan to work with young people in all of this…at some point.
Q. Finally Indigo, next time you perform and I’m in the crowd look at my “wow, what the fuck “face and tell me if you like it?
Haha okay. I’m gonna actually take a picture of your, ‘wow, what the fuck face” lol.
Simon Mole calls himself a Spoken Word artist, an emcee and a Hip-Hop Theatre artist. I first met Simon in 2008 at an Apples and Snakes open mic gig. He gave me his CD and I gave it a listen. It was all UK Hip-Hop and was in the same vein as many of the UK Rappers I’d known about such as Task Force, Brain Tax, Jhest etc. Although his overall individual talent was evident; I was most interested in his lyrics. I bumped into him again in 2009 at a writing workshop with Jean Binta Breeze and we clicked. He’s one of the hungriest, raw talented Spoken Word artists I know and he’s going to blow! Trust me!
Yo Simon! You legend! Introduce yourself!
Errr… yeah… I’m Simon. I’ve got a skinhead at the moment, but I only got it done because I had to. Me and my mate Josh have been making a video for a piece I wrote called ‘the say yes think no syndrome’ and if you ever get to see it you’ll understand why I had to get the clippers out. Suffice to say, a short back and sides with a bowl cut over the ears probably isn’t a good look once the need to retain it for continuity purposes has passed…
Q. You came to Spoken Word as a UK Hip-Hop emcee; do you find you’ve become more of a Spoken Word artist these days?
Yeah I do man, definitely. It’s taken me a fair while to feel comfortable defining myself in that way, and I still sometimes feel a bit self-conscious about calling myself a poet. But basically I think it’s pretty crucial to be actively and consistently doing something if you’re going to put yourself out there as that thing – simply looking at what I’ve written and what gigs I’ve done in the last year or so it’s pretty clear to me that I’m more of a spoken word artist than an emcee right now…
That said, rap is poetry, and all genre distinctions are meaningless. Ha ha! I’m not normally one for sweeping statements like that but fuck it, labels can be helpful if you put together event listings or own a record shop but beyond that fuck em. I was at this college the other day about to start a gig/workshop thing for about 200 14 year olds and I kicked off by asking them what they thought of poetry - out of the ‘like’, ‘think it’s ok’, and ‘think it’s rubbish’ options I gave them, the vast majority went for ‘think it’s rubbish’ which was funny but kind of mad really. And then I asked them if they liked rap music and most of them did – when I told them I thought rap was poetry they all looked at me like I was a complete lunatic… I mean I’m not saying 50 cent is on some Ted Hughes shit, and to be fair that kind of mainstream rap is probably what them kids are listening to, but still I mean by broadening their idea of what might be poetry surely there’s the chance of opening the idea for them that poetry of any kind might speak to them on some level, and once you’ve done that who’s to say they won’t actually get into something they might not have otherwise…
Anyway, I digress, so yeah, I AM A POET, and now ousted as such to anyone smart enough to read your wonderful blog Ray.
Q. Your work is sharp in observation and touches the rawest nerves of our human habits – is this technique something you developed or something you naturally discovered was within your ability?
Thanks man. It’s a good time for me to hear you to say that, because lately I’ve been getting the fear a little bit that my work isn’t poetic enough whatever that means, because even though I know there’s poetry inherent in the everyday shit around us which I tend to focus on, I do wish I found myself coming up more often with those wildly poetic images that just seem to pour out of some people. But yeah, I’ve worked on my technique man, of course, so maybe I just need to hone up my ‘wildly poetic image’ abilities now! That said, I should probably also stay strong in my belief that by selecting certain details of that everyday stuff and presenting them with enough space for people to grow their own thought processes around the work, poetry that observes those tiny, important and often unnoticed details can impact in a big way too, just via a different route.
Pushing myself to develop my writing was something I was finding hard to do through music for a while, and through spoken word I started thinking a lot about sensory observational stuff and did hone that skill up intentionally I guess, off the back of a few workshops like that one you mentioned, and just thinking about what I thought was good in the writing that I liked by other people. I think I work quite visually, like quite often when I’m writing a piece I’ll have a particular place, or atmosphere or ‘feel’ associated to that place, in my mind as a kind of guide – if a line or idea doesn’t fit with the feel of that place then it doesn’t go in. Maybe kind of linked to that, I really enjoy writing using photos or film clips as kind of prompts or source material, a bit like I imagine a painter might if they want to create a realistic impression of a place, thing, person, whatever, even if they then move away from that realistic representation it’s good to have it as a foundation to start with.
I also do a lot of writing exercise man, from books and shit, sometimes to start something new off, or sometimes using little exercises I have myself for helping other people get through writing blocks in workshops, and just using them to help me get through my own blocks – it’s mad how long it took to think about doing that really, I remember Jonzi D saying to me I should think about how I approach teaching/supporting other people’s creative processes when creating my own stuff, I even plan myself little writing workshops sometimes man, with warms up and everything, I’m a proper geek for this shit, ha ha! Some people are a bit funny about exercises and that, like it should all just come to you natural in a spark of inspiration or something but I figure if you can do something you enjoy, and it will almost certainly improve your writing then surely you gonna jump on that right?! In fact, there’s one book you recommended me Ray, called ‘the practice of poetry’ which is quite a good one.
Q. I came to see your one man Spoken Word show at The Albany and you blew me away, it was genuinely amazing. Do you think one-man shows are the way forward for the Spoken Word genre?
They’re certainly the way forward for me at the moment man. I don’t know about for the genre as a whole man, I guess if everyone started doing one man shows instead of shorter pieces then maybe the market would get saturated or some shit, who knows? People should do it if they want to man, not to push the genre – if that’s your sole start point for making something I’m guessing it might not be so much fun… For me, making theatre, you know, devising new theatre that draws influences and methods from different art-forms has been something I’ve been into for years, and doing it like this is the most satisfying way of doing that for me right now. But as well as that, yeah, if some people within the spoken word ‘scene’ make some longer work, thinking more consciously about the theatrical side of it, and that then has an impact on other artists to think about their own work in a different way, or if in any way shows like say Inua Ellam’s thing being on at the national, mean that people become interested in spoken word who might not have otherwise then yeah that’s wicked. So in a way maybe it is pushing the genre so much as the genre exists at all in any concrete static way, just in terms of expanding what people think spoken word can be… But yeah, just read back your question and you didn’t even say pushing the genre at all, ah well…
Q. Where do you see yourself as a Spoken Word artist in five years?
Wow, tough question. It’s funny man because whenever I ask young people to do something like that, you know thinking about their life in five, ten years I always try to do it for myself as well at the same time to remind myself what a hard thing it is to do! I think I have an idea where I’d like to be, but the path to making a relatively stable and sustainable career as a writer is definitely an ongoing journey rather than one with a definite end point for most people.
For me, I guess to be in a position where the majority of my income comes from my own writing and performing would be amazing, mainly just because that would mean that the majority of conventional ‘work hours’ could be spent doing that type of thing, and also just because it would make me feel good. Then again I wouldn’t want to lose the education and community arts project stuff totally because I love it man. As of now, I feel genuinely lucky that I’m in a position where I’m able to make my living from a combination of writing, gigging and workshops you know what I mean? And regardless of the fact that most of my money comes from workshops really, I still manage to work it so a decent chunk of my Monday to Friday time is spent doing stuff I would actively want to do in my spare time around a ‘proper’ job if I still had one… I guess it’s good to appreciate where I am now, as well as aiming for stuff in the future you know, otherwise you can get somewhere and already be thinking about the next thing to the point that you don’t really appreciate the moment you just worked your arse off to get to. Haven’t answered that at all have I?! Q. Can you tell us about the education/community projects you are currently involved in and how you got involved in running workshops initially?
My main focus on that front in the last few months has been a project for Guys and St Thomas’s charity which has involved me working with the porters at the hospital, getting them to write poetry. It’s been an amazing project man, they’re a safe bunch as well – they do such an important job, and in some ways it’s easy for that to go unnoticed within the hospital. The main aim of the project was to celebrate that good job they already do, by giving them a voice through the poetry they write – a lot of them had never done anything like it before but we ended up with contributions from seventeen members of their team in the end, some of them were proper good too! There’s going to be an exhibition of the poems in the atrium in the hospital which we’re launching on national poetry day in October, and this dope illustrator Jess Wilson is working with the poems so they’re going to look amazing too! You can check more on their website here:
As for how I got involved in workshops, working with young people in some way has always been something I’ve done, kind of like my real job career path alongside my music and theatre stuff until they started to merge. And even way way back when I was in Brighton youth theatre as, well, a youth, we used to run workshops for other kids back then too, so it’s always been part of my creative process really if I think about it. Around the time I was at uni I did a lot of work with a drama therapist too for quite a while, which was pretty full on at points but definitely really rewarding, and taught me a lot about a lot of things. I guess I was in a position where by the time I started to think about wanting to get paid for running workshops, I’d already been doing it for ages in some way, you know, volunteering and work experience and just doing it for fun really man. The more poetry-based workshops have come along more recently, but particularly with them I really feel that breaking down how I create in order to try and give other people a route into writing for the first time has helped me grow my own writing too, in a way I might not have done otherwise… In some ways, maybe I’ve got more natural talent for teaching than writing so it can be a case of ‘teaching’ myself at points, which might sound like a kind of weird approach but it works for me!
Q. So then, would you say the educational route is the best way to find financial stability as a Spoken Word artist?
For me it certainly has been (up to the point that I am financially stable anyway!) and I think that it’s definitely a really amazing way to support yourself as an artist because you still get to do the thing that you love, well, help other people do it anyway- actually, that tiny distinction is why its so important to get the balance right man. If you just do ‘intro to hip hop’ workshops five days a week, pretty soon you’re going to be coming home not feeling like writing yourself you know? It’s a privilege to be able to run workshops for kids and get paid for it man, so it’s important to make sure your creatively satisfied yourself outside of that environment too.
Also, I guess it’s just not for some people, if you don’t like work with kids, or you get impatient if someone ‘doesn’t get it’ or you don’t like listening to slightly out of time 8 bar raps by 15 year olds then maybe not eh?!
I think for me, the way forward is targeting the type of work I try to get, like for instance this thing at guys involved a writing commission for me, and the whole thing stretched out over a few months so it afforded me a little stability as well being something that fulfilled me creatively as an artist as well an arts practitioner. I know it’s a small difference but being an artist or writer who runs education or community projects as well, is very different to being a teacher who tries to do their own shit on the side, you know what I mean? Happy to say I’m definitely in the first camp now, but I’ve had to work hard to make that transition and I’m aware that it’s a fluid thing that could change depending what work there is about.
Q. What gigs you got lined up?
I’m hosting a little homegrown festival that some good mates of mine put on in a very picturesque valley near Bath every year. It’s called Hamswell and is the friendliest a friendly little festival can be – if you’re free the weekend of 13th – 15th August and fancy some great music, workshops, local farm barbecues and some good old fashioned unhinged revelry then take a look at the website: www.hamswellfestival.com
Think I’m back at Chill Pill at the end of august too – props to you guys for that night man, definitely establishing itself nicely as a great place to try out and see new work, as well as a spot to see established artists for free, so yeah good work to y’all on that!
Also, September and October are looking exciting for me, really exciting actually – been waking up early some mornings and not being able to get back to sleep due to an excessively active ideas and plot-hatching portion of my brain! Basically, I’ve been redeveloping that spoken word show you saw at the albany in March – this time around it’s called ‘Indiana Jones and the extra chair’, I’m billing it as ‘the least dreaded family gathering of the year’ and a buffet supper will be provided inclusive of the ticket price, but I’m going to ask that in return people bring along their own memories of food-based family get-togethers…
Anyway, I’ve got the preview for it at The Freeword Centre on Friday September 17th, which is going to be free and a good chance for me to get some feedback on the material in a theatre space before doing a three night run of it in ‘the dinner room’ at a really cool traditional little pub called ‘the calthorpe arms’ on the Grays Inn Road. The dates for that are Wednesday 30th September, Thursday 31st September, and Friday1st October. Anyone interested should either hit me up on my myspace or email ticketsforthedinnerroom@yahoo.co.uk for more info…
Q. How can we access more of your work? – I just googled you and got a dead website about nothing!
Yeah, I know the website you mean and it is nothing to do with me man! I always fear people will check it out and think the cartoon of the dude in the west brom shirt, which he then takes off for some reason, is me. It’s not. I should have a website up in the not too distant future though, but a mate is putting together for me for free so it’s inevitably taking a little longer. Matthew Baker if you’re reading this, get your arse in gear man! So yeah, for now, my myspace page is the best place really – www.myspace.com/simonmole
I first met him at a poetry slam where he was disqualified for using props – I thought he was a genius straight away and felt his disqualification was part of the act. Once you made it into my books as a genius you get a license to get away with anything in my world- a bit like Phillip Seymour Hoffman when he gets an unlimited arts council ‘Genius’ grant in the film 'Synecdoche New York'...
Rob Auton is from York!
He was at PoeJazzi recently and I took a CD off him. I loved the way it was packaged in a little cardboard slip, stapled together with a child like drawing of what looked like a whale with a beak and little wings – bless him.
The CD was brilliant – 21 short satirical poems and short stories–
“I can tell by the look of her cat that she doesn’t like cats I can tell by the look of her dog that she doesn’t like cats”
There was also a poem about a car spotter.
“I am a car spotter, my favorite type of traffic is jam”
I call this genius and that might make me a dunce! Who knows?
Q. Rob Auton, how are you, who are you and should we care?
I'm OK thanks. I'm writing this in the heart of an Internet cafe in Walthamstow. Not a hot drink in sight. There is however a vending machine, it's full but the light is off. Does that mean the drinks are luke warm? Yes, yes it does. 14 minutes of my 50p hour have passed.
Q. Are you comfortable with being called a Spoken Word poet? Do you see yourself this way?
Are you calling me a spoken word poet? If so, then yes I am comfortable with it. Nobody has ever called me that to my face. My iPod batteries have just run out. So I can now hear the tapping of these keys, and people talking on skype. The guy next to me is talking to his girlfriend, I can see her, but she can't see me. Or can she? No she can't. I’m not looking again. They are having a private conversation, what better place to have it than in an Internet cafe?
Q. What’s your work ethic as a poet/ writer and performer?
If I have an idea, I write it in my notepad or into my phone, whichever is in my pocket at the time. If it's an idea that I like and it keeps poking me in the centre of my forehead throughout the day, then I will work on it when I get home, or on my lunch break. Sometimes things work on themselves, other times I've got to do it. I like the ideas that come like ready meals and I've just got to heat them up with as little effort as possible. I want to get as much stuff down as as I can so I can go back to it and see if it is rubbish or not. Is that an ethic? I want to put things in people's heads that are not already there.
Q. How do poets make money?
Working in art shops in soho.
Q. You run a night called ‘Bang Said The Gun’? Is it successful by your own standards and what would you advise on someone who is starting out their own poetry night?
Since Bang Said The Gun went weekly in February it has really started to fizz. I jumped on the Bang wagon after it had been going for ten years, by that time, the guys that started it had cemented the spirit of it to have real guts. We keep trying to build it and add things every week to keep it fresh. I think you have got to have the audience at the front of your mind all the time, you can't put on a poetry night for you it has to be for the audience. Not that I put it on, I help to put it on. I think it’s important to be part of a team of people that you share a goal with.
Q. What is the future of poetry? Is there one?
The future of poetry is the people who feel the need to comment on this thing that we have all been born into. I remember one of your status updates saying something like "a lot of people have died in the past, we are the small few who are alive." It's true you know, all the people who are alive now, it's like we are on the front of a really wide train powered by the past and we are all clinging onto the front with the wind in our faces travelling into the future. Say you had a black rectangle that was 50 meters long and 5 meters high we would be the yellow millimeter at the right end. The future of poetry is people feeling that thing of going, ‘YEEEEAHH come on lets have it, pass me that pen, I want to WRITE about this stuff that going on’.
Q. As a poet are you under-rated or more so misunderstood?
I didn't consider myself to be either until now.
Q. Is your poetry consciously outrageous or have I just insulted you?
I don't think my poetry has ever caused outrage. I got an old woman in a brief loving headlock on the tube after a large amount of Tequila, that was outrageous behavior that I regret.
I've been doing this for 51 minutes.
Q. Where do you see yourself tomorrow?
I will be in the art shop at 8am dealing with a Daler Rowney delivery. Tomorrow as in the future, I will be having ideas, seeing if I like them, then seeing if other people like them.
Q. Rob – your stuff is brilliant – you know that right?
Let’s say Spoken Word poetry blew up, some fiery incarnate of a young Bob Dylan, a reflective Nina Simone and a love struck John Keats emerged from some trees in the city, and the whole world opened their eyes to the power and value of this art-form. Riding the crest of that gate-crashing wave would be ‘Hollie Mcnish’, passionately splattering verses into the open veins of the people.
I met Hollie in 2008, we’ve performed on the same stage numerous times and she’s certainly a hard act to follow. She’s a free flowing, internal rhyme scheming, conscious, empathetic and inspiring writer and Spoken Word artist. There’s magic in her voice, its slightly gravely but boldly feminine.
Recently she gave birth and composed an entire Spoken Word album called ‘Kick, Push’. In her own words it is “a journey through the beauty, brilliance and bollocks of having a baby”.
I’ve given it a listen and it was exactly what I wanted it to be, delicate but unrestrained, one of the most important things (in my opinion) in becoming a poet/song writer/ performer is being able to deliver your own truth and integrity, something that lacks in a lot of Rappers, emcees and young writers.
If there is any justice in the world, Hollie Mcnish’s star quality will not be overlooked.
Q. Hollie, it’s been a while! What in the world are you up to?
At the moment, in between watching in fascination as my daughter learns to talk and walk and smile, I'm in the final stages of my album 'Touch', which I've been recording over the last year. It’s a mix of poetry and some music / beats and skits. And I'm just trying to keep writing down as much as I can, though a lot of rhymes I think of but don't have the chance to write down and then forget! I'm playing at Glastonbury really soon, and then Latitude, Shambala, Fordham Fest and going to Secret Garden Party. That's about as much as I can manage at the moment without keeling over but I can't wait. I've never been to any except Glastobury so it should be an experience - especially with the wee one! I'm also doing some workshops with schools around Cambridge, on poetry and riverside developments which looks interesting. But mainly, I'm looking after my daughter, who'll be coming to all the gigs and classes with me so it should be a laugh! Oh, and I've got a residency lined up for next March in Belgium which I can't wait for cos I'm forgetting my French and I get really excited talking it!
Q. Giving birth has not stopped you from pursuing your career as a Spoken Word artist. Where does that type of faith stem from? How are you managing?
I’m managing alright thanks to a lot of help from my boyfriend of course, and mum! And the fact that my baby is a bloody amazing calm tree gazer at the moment! They both forced me to read out my poems to others at the start of it all and are really supportive in making sure I carry on with it...the longer I have a break between gigs the more nervous I get again – it’s not a good look! I don’t feel like I’m trying to pursue a career as a poet – I work for an urban planning / environmental charity and love that work but I find I express my ideas about stuff best in rhyme, always have. And now I’m kinda stuck between paths!! I love writing but I don’t think I’d be able to if I gave up my job or studies – cos that’s where I get what I write about. At the moment though, sleep takes priority over both!
Q. You’re shortlisted to represent British talent as a Spoken Word artist at an Australian Young Writers Festival. How can Spoken Word artists create these kinds of opportunities?
I know this is a stupidly practical answer but I find out about loads from two websites...arts council job ads and news and another writing website... http://www.literaturetraining.com/metadot/index.pl?id=2213 And then apply for everything you want!
Q. What or who inspires your craft as a writer and performer?
To be honest, probably people who make me angry cos that’s when I feel I need to write to get out my frustration and sort out my thoughts into a more helpful form. so in that sense, Nick Griffin, George Bush, Uribe (Colombian president), Rupert Murdoch! I write a lot of softer poetry, more personal stuff too, but I hardly ever read it out – I don’t feel like people would be interested in that side...in terms of poets, I don’t know too many to be honest, it’s more musicians and lyrics that I would sit and listen to for hours...i love taskforce, Erikah Badu, durrty goodz, arianna puello...too many to go into really.
Q. You come across as a street-wise young woman, what was your own upbringing like and how has this led to you being who and what you are today?
Ooh, not sure, don’t generally talk about family stuff but overall had a lovely, lucky, un-traumatic, blessed upbringing. All my family are from Glasgow or nearabouts but I was born in England which was always a bit strange being the one with a funny accent! I went to a normal school, was a bit of a geek in class, always desperate to learn. I studied at Cambridge, which taught me a lot about not being intimidated by people I used to - eg very rich, upper class etc etc. I lived in the French Caribbean for a year, then did a part time masters in development economics while working in a lovely wee clothes shop and less lovely night club to pay for it...so, I guess, I’ve had a real mix of stuff and kinda learnt a bit off it all I think – lived on my own for 8 years which helps I reckon!
I remember we were both talking once about people who “don’t get what we do” and it’s hard when those people are your loved ones and close relatives? How understanding is the family now?
They vary! Some love it, others hate it, mainly because of the swearing, others I think don’t like the subject matter, but a lot just aren’t bothered either way – it’s not really a conversation topic most of the time. The only thing that is hard is when they start to pressure me to make it like a career, and then it stops being fun, and I stop thinking of poems!
Q. So many respected poets, writers and magazines have already tipped you to blow! You’re a fantastic inspiration and I’d like to see more of you… How you going to keep hungry?
Well, I’m flattered. I still find it kinda crazy cos I’ve been writing for so many years and now I’m reading to other people and they like it – well some like it! I love writing, I always have so I really don’t see it stopping. The only time I stopped was when I was at Uni for three years cos I got no inspiration at all. Was weird. But yeah, I write about everything and anything so unless we go into a black hole, I don’t think I’ll lose the hunger! And as for performing, the more I do it, the less nervous I get and the more bloody amazing people and places I meet. It’s a great turn in my life and I don’t want it to stop!
